What has made you mad today?

[increpatio]

reading these accounts of the treatment of protesters yesterday.

[John W]

And I am mad that some demonstrators chose to force their way down a street that wasn't part of the route agreed by the NUS, taking fence barricades with them and using them as weapons. Stuff like this :




I took part in demos on Edinburgh in the 1970s, against education minister Thatcher, which was more like this:

[marbleflugel]

The standard issue line that '...The vast majority were law-abiding' holds good - the question is who backed those who provoked the unannounced detours and so precipitated the police response- could it be that this was some shadowy third party?

[John W]

With inky as well though, some police action is too aggressive.

Pushing young girls BACK into the kettled area was very uncomfortable viewing. Some use of truncheon looked excessive, they should remember the poor man who died earlier this year.

Though two men pushing a metal frame at a policeman should expect him to hit back.

But of course, if the demo went peacefully along its route and everyone went home safely we wouldn't be talking about it, and just saying the vote went through?

My daughter finished uni 3 years ago, still hasn't earned £21k a year, still owes £15k. Now has a baby with high-earning partner. I don't think the govmt will ever see any of that £15k!

[Chakgogka]

In a fully fledged democracy there is no excuse for acts of vandalism and violence. However, while we're waiting...

[SimonH]

John - two observations about "agreed routes". One is that the police reserve the right to change their minds about where people are allowed to go & to break any prior 'agreement'. If they give an explanation (generally on the ground they don't - & never have: or if they do  it's likely to be terse & four-lettered) it's that the situation has changed. Which, demonstrations being fluid things, is pretty much inevitable.

The other is that people know the police will kettle them without warning. Would you march into a trap or a 'kettle' down an agreed route? People have got wise to what happens when they do what the police expect them to do.

[Stanley Stewart]

              Lear       "O, let me not be mad, not mad, sweet heaven!
                            Keep me in temper: I would not be mad! -"                   Act 1, sc iv

[SimonH]

Stanley .

But only through madness does Lear gain knowledge. Or: the 'sane' Lear was mad, the 'mad' Lear is sane?

[SimonH]

Or the sane Lear would have had Poor Tom whipped. The mad Lear wants to keep Poor Tom safe & warm.

[John W]

If vandalism or looting or burning occurs, which it did,  then the kettling starts. The violent element's aim likely is to provoke the police so that the police will respond with violence or kettling.

Public opinion has been very sympathetic with the students who'll be lumbered with these huge 'loans'. How difficult will it be for an earner on £25k to pay the loan AND a mortgage?

What makes me mad is the the public sympathy is surely diminished by the vandalism, and the desecration behaviour at the cenotaph memorial and statues, yeah it just had to be a rock star's stepson 

[SimonH]

If vandalism or looting or burning occurs, which it did,  then the kettling starts. The violent element's aim likely is to provoke the police so that the police will respond with violence or kettling.

But that's not the usual sequence, never mind the inevitable sequence. Kettling occurs without "vandalism or looting or burning" having happened or happening concurrent with the kettle. That was the situation last week with several people I know. It's happened to me. Before kettling I've been at the wrong end of unprovoked police action, & have been a witness to similar incidents (though being a 'witness' isn't recommendable). The idea is to deter people from demonstrating. Especially people who aren't seasoned or experienced demonstrators or 'agitators'. Give them a nasty shock so they don't come back.

[Stanley Stewart]

Lear       "O, reason not the need: our basest beggars
              Are in the poorest thing superfluous:
              Allow not nature more than nature needs,
              Man's life is as cheap as beast's:......"

               "I will have revenges on you both
               That all the world shall, - I will do such things, -
               What they are I know not; but they shall be
               The terrors of the earth.   You think I'll weep;
               No, I'll not weep:-
               I have full cause of weeping; but this heart
               Shall break into a hundred thousand flaws
               Or ere I'll weep. - O fool, I shall go mad!"                      Act II, sc iv             

[John W]

The idea is to deter people from demonstrating. Especially people who aren't seasoned or experienced demonstrators or 'agitators'. Give them a nasty shock so they don't come back.

Well in this case, with young students, I expect they will come back if they've seen innocent folk man-handled and injured. The banners might say something different next time.

[SimonH]

"What they are I know not; but they shall be
               The terrors of the earth."

That enjambment is fantastic. Despairingly searching for something adequate to his rage ... & he comes up with "The terrors of the earth." Or "things."

[SimonH]

The idea is to deter people from demonstrating. Especially people who aren't seasoned or experienced demonstrators or 'agitators'. Give them a nasty shock so they don't come back.

Well in this case, with young students, I expect they will come back if they've seen innocent folk man-handled and injured. The banners might say something different next time.

I'm sure they will, yes. The young are proving resilient & determined over this .